tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post1913829758773769852..comments2024-03-12T12:38:23.542-04:00Comments on The Kind of Face You Hate: Underutilizedbill r.http://www.blogger.com/profile/17748572205731857892noreply@blogger.comBlogger67125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-73123224542796076692009-02-20T12:11:00.000-05:002009-02-20T12:11:00.000-05:00I don't find Van Sant cold at all. I think the fac...I don't find Van Sant cold at all. I think the fact that he is so clearly interested in the formal elements of his films can sometimes distract from the obvious emotion he invests in these stories and characters. Just talking about <I>Elephant</I>, he clearly cares about these kids, and the guitar jam in <I>Last Days</I>, despite being filmed from an "objective" distance, nearly makes me cry every time. He's a formalist, and yes, a deconstructionist, but I always find that his best films are also emotionally affecting.<BR/><BR/>Actually, anyone who doubts that Van Sant has soul should check out his first film, <I>Mala Noche</I>, which is an absolutely gorgeous and affecting portrait of sexual desire. I think there's a real continuity, too, between that film and the death trilogy, so much so that the films he made in between seem like an extended detour.<BR/><BR/>As for his <I>Psycho</I> remake, I think it's an interesting if ultimately failed experiment, and his most obviously formalist work. Now <I>that</I> film is cold. I like the way he explores the sexual subtexts of Hitchcock's original, and toys with such things as the color palette and the random inserts into the murder scenes. In many ways, I wish he'd actually gone a lot <I>further</I> in deconstructing the Hitchcock version.Ed Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18014222247676090467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-3587347784102489352009-02-20T11:39:00.000-05:002009-02-20T11:39:00.000-05:00Sure it's a self-indulgence. What art isn't, to o...Sure it's a self-indulgence. What art isn't, to one degree or another? But you have a point, why a studio agreed to bankroll that, I have no idea.bill r.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17748572205731857892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-75440633777247353982009-02-20T11:27:00.000-05:002009-02-20T11:27:00.000-05:00I've heard a number of people say Burton is cold, ...I've heard a number of people say Burton is cold, though I don't see it myself.<BR/><BR/>As for Van Sant, it must be nice to be given millions and millions of dollars to fool around. I mean that, but I also think it's a self-indulgence.Marilynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15730000155687661753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-38959957904281540792009-02-20T11:20:00.000-05:002009-02-20T11:20:00.000-05:00I'd agree that Van Sant is cold -- and to be hones...I'd agree that Van Sant is cold -- and to be honest, I'm basing my opinions of him on not all that much -- but not without humanity. I think <B>Elephant</B> is full of humanity, but it's just viewed from a distance.<BR/><BR/>His <B>Psycho</B> remake...you know, I don't know what to think about that one. I know that some of the things he chose to add (like shots of stormclouds, the SOUND of Bates masturbating, etc.) were pointless, but I also can't find it in myself to get angry that he did it. That's the reaction I don't understand. Van Sant clearly wasn't saying "Well, frankly, Hitchcock didn't quite nail it the first time, and I think I can do a better job." It was a bizarre art experiment that I admire him for trying, although I can't see what anybody, including Van Sant, was supposed to get out of it. That being said, I've wanted to check it out again, just out of curiosity (the same curiosity that spurred me to see it the first time).<BR/><BR/>Do people think Tim Burton is cold? Like him or not (I choose both), "cold" isn't the first word that springs to mind when I think of him.bill r.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17748572205731857892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-10784193919272580002009-02-20T11:10:00.000-05:002009-02-20T11:10:00.000-05:00Van Sant seems like a film deconstructionist to me...Van Sant seems like a film deconstructionist to me. What do you make of his shot-by-shot remake of <I>Psycho</I>? <I>Gerry</I> was such a self-consciously cinematic film. I've seen many films of visual poetry that also had some soul. Mind you, I don't think <I>Elephant</I> was a bad film - it was fascinating in its way - but so cold. Van Sant is a cold filmmmaker to me, colder than Tim Burton is accused of being.Marilynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15730000155687661753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-60011411281203711002009-02-20T11:03:00.000-05:002009-02-20T11:03:00.000-05:00Well, United 93 really knocked me out -- I've neve...Well, <B>United 93</B> really knocked me out -- I've never had an experience like that in a movie theater -- so <B>Elephant</B> isn't going to compare favorably in my mind. But Greengrass and Van Sant are going for completely different things. Greengrass describes his film (and his other masterwork, <B>Bloody Sunday</B>) as "docu-dramas", which is not a label anyone would think to place on Van Sant's film. I think Ed nailed it when he talked about Van Sant "finds poetry and beauty in such utterly prosaic events as walking to football practice or meeting a friend in the halls." Why he chose Columbine as an avenue for this -- apart from the connection with death, which he wanted to explore -- I don't know, other than that I imagine that tragedy was rattling around in his brain and he had to get it out.bill r.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17748572205731857892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-34175198458505316592009-02-20T10:39:00.000-05:002009-02-20T10:39:00.000-05:00That's my thinking, too. Sometimes I really wonder...That's my thinking, too. Sometimes I really wonder just what Van Sant is trying to accomplish? He's the kind of director I identify with being all about the visuals. His films are so humanly empty. Compare <I>Elephant</I> with <I>United 93</I>. Both traumatic events, both outcomes known. Yet, Greengrass actually makes the film suspenseful, human, in-depth. For Van Sant, movies seem just to be images to manipulate.Marilynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15730000155687661753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-90704358896450025552009-02-20T10:23:00.000-05:002009-02-20T10:23:00.000-05:00Marilyn, I thought that knowing what it was about ...Marilyn, I thought that knowing what it was about simply added to the sense of dread. Of course, had I <I>not</I> known what was coming, the impact of the film would probably have been doubled.bill r.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17748572205731857892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-78381713167153050482009-02-20T10:00:00.000-05:002009-02-20T10:00:00.000-05:00The biggest problem I had with Elephant is that it...The biggest problem I had with <I>Elephant</I> is that it was so based on Columbine that it was hard to really stay with it emotionally. You know what's going to happen, so it's easy to check out. I loved the way it was shot. I loved the overlapping stories and different POV shots of the same moment. I loved the actors.<BR/><BR/>I remember being the "first kid on my block" to see it and begging people not to read anything about it at all. I wanted to know if a blind reaction to the film would make a difference. Of course, my pleas were utterly ignored. I'll never know for sure now.Marilynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15730000155687661753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-46176351573077282172009-02-20T00:03:00.000-05:002009-02-20T00:03:00.000-05:00If this thread gets more comments than my August T...If this thread gets more comments than my August TOERIFC post I will officially retire from blogging (Rick Olson just got excited and is going to immediately start a <B>Boycott TOERIFC in August</B> task force!).Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08067136509248849744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-30163228399024053302009-02-19T21:11:00.000-05:002009-02-19T21:11:00.000-05:00So, what have y'all been talking about?I just want...So, what have y'all been talking about?<BR/><BR/>I just want to join in the general trashing of Fox.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-5392716275468637982009-02-19T16:39:00.000-05:002009-02-19T16:39:00.000-05:00Yeah, but I really couldn't manage it. I wouldn't...Yeah, but I <I>really</I> couldn't manage it. I wouldn't be able to take the time on it I would need to. My plan before was to have everything set to go the night before, and then just get up early enough to get the post up, with pictures, before leaving for work.<BR/><BR/>I can take the day off, though. I don't mind.bill r.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17748572205731857892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-69945017454996176892009-02-19T16:25:00.000-05:002009-02-19T16:25:00.000-05:00because I can't possibly get a post like that up d...<I>because I can't possibly get a post like that up during working hours.</I><BR/><BR/>I almost took off but then figured it wouldn't be any different from any other day of heavy commenting. I even managed to go to a couple of short meetings that day believe it or not.Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05730146625671701859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-37809592146148260432009-02-19T14:58:00.000-05:002009-02-19T14:58:00.000-05:00When it's my turn, I may take the day off from wor...When it's my turn, I may take the day off from work. Seriously. Especially if this 10-11 am thing becomes a rule, because I can't possibly get a post like that up during working hours.<BR/><BR/>After talking about Bottoms (tee hee!!), I looked him up on IMDB and, of course, I'd seen a lot of his films, but it had been so long that I simply forgot he was in them, like <B>The Paper Chase</B> and <B>The Last Picture Show</B> and <B>White Dawn</B> (where's <I>that</I> DVD, by the way??). And it's not like he has small roles in any of them. He's the star of <B>The Paper Chase</B>!!bill r.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17748572205731857892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-66738874431943177852009-02-19T14:47:00.000-05:002009-02-19T14:47:00.000-05:00I really fell from him when he starred in a TV ver...<I> I really fell from him when he starred in a TV version of O'Henry's "The Gift of the Magi" opposite (believe it or not) Marie Osmond.</I><BR/><BR/>Did they show Marie Osmond bald?Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05730146625671701859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-19927071860627902009-02-19T14:45:00.000-05:002009-02-19T14:45:00.000-05:00I just checked back and it actually didn't even re...I just checked back and it actually didn't even reach the tenth comment (that's including my replies) until an hour and 15 minutes after posting. <BR/><BR/>I'm thinking we need to set a time that everyone knows. I think 10 a.m. is good because so many of us are on Eastern or Central time and if we wait until noon so that it's nine on the West Coast that will limit the time at work for a lot of us which is where we comment. <BR/><BR/>So I think I'll put that up on the main site. Anyone posting please do so between 10 and 11 Eastern Standard Time to insure maximum discussion time.Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05730146625671701859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-66644198220009418642009-02-19T14:44:00.000-05:002009-02-19T14:44:00.000-05:00I had the biggest crush on Timothy Bottoms when I ...I had the biggest crush on Timothy Bottoms when I was younger. He was wonderful in <I>The Paper Chase</I>, but I really fell from him when he starred in a TV version of O'Henry's "The Gift of the Magi" opposite (believe it or not) Marie Osmond. She was terrible, but he was so convincingly in love with her that both I and my mother swooned.Marilynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15730000155687661753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-24781352164809643842009-02-19T14:39:00.000-05:002009-02-19T14:39:00.000-05:00I started thinking around an hour after it went up...<I>I started thinking around an hour after it went up and there were only about 17 comments, "Oh man I picked a dud. This conversation's dead."</I><BR/><BR/>Honestly? I was thinking the same thing. Not because you'd done a bad job, mind you, but things weren't kicking into high gear like I thought/hoped they would. I think I know you well enough to have known how that comment rate was effecting you mentally. And I couldn't see my way to help much, as the film didn't really connect with me. But, as you say, fortunately everything etc.bill r.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17748572205731857892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-39265097492886007782009-02-19T14:37:00.000-05:002009-02-19T14:37:00.000-05:00Jonathan, my turn is two months away, and I alread...Jonathan, my turn is two months away, and I already feel like that. I'm considering starting my work on this really early, so I can do any fine-tuning, re-writing, etc., well in advance. I want to get a good grade, and all. I'm also worried that I should act like a smart-ass in my TOERIFC post, even though I don't really know any other way.bill r.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17748572205731857892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-51467882050719385442009-02-19T14:36:00.000-05:002009-02-19T14:36:00.000-05:00Oh and I forgot to add: There was this fear I had...Oh and I forgot to add: There was this fear I had of "what if the comment discussion dies out after around 40 comments?" I mean, normally 40 is pretty good and as we can see here, it's not that difficult to achieve when everything is conversational. But in specifically discussing a movie, that's different. I was actively aware that Marilyn got 176 comments (which I've now surpassed but the last 15 or so comments have been off topic) and I started thinking around an hour after it went up and there were only about 17 comments, "Oh man I picked a dud. This conversation's dead." Fortunately I was wrong. <BR/><BR/>If I think of any other horrible anxious feelings that arise when writing a TOERIFC post I'll be sure and update you. <BR/><BR/>Ha Ha! I'm FREEEEEE!!!!!!Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05730146625671701859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-23110888681987491142009-02-19T14:31:00.000-05:002009-02-19T14:31:00.000-05:00Bill, I was right the first time, don't worry abou...Bill, I was right the first time, don't worry about it. <BR/><BR/>By the way, I know we all write stuff all the time for people to read but I just thought I'd let you guys know that TOERIFC feels completely different. It felt like a term paper assignment in school. Seriously it did. Unlike other posts we do, you know that everyone is <I>waiting</I> for this post and <I>everyone who is waiting</I> has just watched the movie you're writing about. It's unnerving. It's not like writing about a movie and someone comments, "Oh yeah I saw that too..." It's not like that at all. It's like "We all just watched this so you'd better not screw it up!"<BR/><BR/>So needless to say, I'm reeeeeeeeally glad my turn's over. Enjoy!Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05730146625671701859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-87502862956856764822009-02-19T14:23:00.000-05:002009-02-19T14:23:00.000-05:00Ed - Yep. The ending is pretty much the whole rea...Ed - Yep. The ending is pretty much the whole reason I bought the film. It's so crazy and nightmarish.<BR/><BR/>Jonathan - Well, that's my fear. A while back, I voiced this same concern, and YOU said don't worry about it. But now you have me worried about it again.bill r.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17748572205731857892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-87688998198812092182009-02-19T14:19:00.000-05:002009-02-19T14:19:00.000-05:00But do you think the discussion of WWII/Holocaust ...But do you think the discussion of WWII/Holocaust will feel exhausted? I'm not trying to influence anything I just don't want people to think, "Oh not again" by the time we get to <B>Black Book</B>. Maybe we won't since each movie has its own unique angle. <BR/><BR/>I think Fox should do either <B>The Rescuers</B> or <B>Milo and Otis</B>.Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05730146625671701859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-21435900387284916492009-02-19T14:17:00.000-05:002009-02-19T14:17:00.000-05:00Bill: Yes, that ending! One of the reasons I think...Bill: Yes, that ending! One of the reasons I think it's a good choice is that through so much of the movie it's like, "ho hum, man this movie kinda sucks, I can't believe this is Bergman" and then all of sudden there'll be these scenes of just amazing strangeness that make you sit up and take notice. It's a deeply weird film.Ed Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18014222247676090467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-2900950263371770252009-02-19T14:16:00.000-05:002009-02-19T14:16:00.000-05:00No, Fox, that's this weekend. I said so in my pos...No, Fox, that's this weekend. I said so in my post! Those three delightful films should be in my mailbox tonight, and I'll definitely be writing about them. I'm not quite sure how it'll work (I might try and lay out some sort of structure in a post tomorrow afternoon-ish), but it's coming. And we all know that you can't stop what's coming.bill r.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17748572205731857892noreply@blogger.com