tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post7449083311669782779..comments2024-03-12T12:38:23.542-04:00Comments on The Kind of Face You Hate: The Marlin, the Troutbill r.http://www.blogger.com/profile/17748572205731857892noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-54640780027425628892010-10-12T01:42:29.140-04:002010-10-12T01:42:29.140-04:00Bill, just for the sake of accuracy, the "chi...Bill, just for the sake of accuracy, the "chicken" subplot was taken directly from Ben Mezrich's book, The Accidental Billionaires. Though you do mention in this piece that you're not sure if this subplot was true to reality (and I'm not sure, either--I'm too lazy to look it up anyway), it should be noted that if the subplot is fiction, it originated from Mezrich's imagination. Sorkin's entire screenplay mostly shoots the book.Adam Zanziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14524618281515322239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-60234982384315866512010-10-08T11:36:25.224-04:002010-10-08T11:36:25.224-04:00I know, Kevyn -- sorry if I came off belligerent b...I know, Kevyn -- sorry if I came off belligerent before. That wasn't my intention.bill r.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17748572205731857892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-57343582185573772542010-10-06T23:35:12.376-04:002010-10-06T23:35:12.376-04:00Bill,
Yes, I got that you really liked the film. ...Bill,<br /><br />Yes, I got that you really liked the film. I was just giving a helping hand to Sorkin as it were.<br /><br />And yes, I also get what you mean by the context of such a discussion and all that.<br /><br />Mainly I was just trying to toss in my ideas of the screenplay.<br /><br />Take care. Great piece on the movie btw.Kevyn Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17840497589713234794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-44066888605289226522010-10-06T10:07:49.063-04:002010-10-06T10:07:49.063-04:00Kevyn - That's all cool (man). I know a lot o...Kevyn - That's all cool (man). I know a lot of people love Sorkin the way I love David Mamet, and that's fine. But listen: you DID get that I REALLY liked this movie, right? Historically, I'm not a fan of Sorkin at all, but I thought his work here was pretty excellent. I had some quibbles that I wanted to bring up, but I hope no ones reads this post and comes away thinking I didn't like the film.<br /><br />As for the marlin bit -- I can imagine that conversation happening in real life. But NOT in that context. That's my problem. Sorkin gets too clever and full of his own words that I don't believe I'm watching people speaking anymore. If he'd had those characters have that discussion during a looser situation, then fine. But not there.<br /><br />BUT STILL!! I REALLY LIKED THE MOVIE A WHOLE BUNCH!bill r.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17748572205731857892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-28116008562237163552010-10-05T18:19:31.085-04:002010-10-05T18:19:31.085-04:00I have always believed one should write (no matter...I have always believed one should write (no matter what they may be writing about) as if everyone reading (or hearing) your words know as much as you do. Of course no two people know the exact same things, but no matter, one should write as if we are all smart and witty and all that kind of jazz. <br /><br />I believe that is how Sorkin writes. I know that is how I write (not to the level of Sorkin, but in that cocksure kind of way). This style has always drawn me to Sorkin's work (Studio 60 is one of the most underrated TV shows ever) and it drew me in on The Social Network (I think they should have dropped the The).<br /><br />The banter about the marlin plays out as very true. I can see myself and certain friends speaking that way. Perhaps we are just freaks (probably a better bet than perhaps, but hey...).<br /><br />Anyway, I just want to go on whatever record there may well be as a dyed-in-the-wool Sorkin fan. And that being so, one who is one of those overpraisers you speak of.<br /><br />A film about not just Facebook, nor about just privacy issues, but a film about power, prestige and the thin ice of supposed friendships. Fincher's camera does wonders here (as it usually does) but it is Sorkin's writing that takes this film into the proverbial stratosphere of overpraising.<br /><br />Not to argue yr Sorkin points (everyone has different tastes) nor your take on the film as a whole (you are a very intelligent writer who definitely knows his stuff) - just wanted to throw in my own 7 cents or so.Kevyn Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17840497589713234794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-33148644715163422982010-10-04T10:28:14.384-04:002010-10-04T10:28:14.384-04:00Ah ha ha! I CONTROL YOU!!!
And I feel my review ...Ah ha ha! I CONTROL YOU!!!<br /><br />And I feel my review was only too clever by one fifth, which is an acceptable margin.<br /><br />Thirdsly, please follow me on BlogBook. I recommend you become a fan of Bill Ryan.bill r.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17748572205731857892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-81016018525776733802010-10-04T09:11:19.154-04:002010-10-04T09:11:19.154-04:00First of all, nice way to interrupt October, jerkw...First of all, nice way to interrupt October, jerkwad. <br /><br />Second of all, I believe Tony was shunned by Armond at those screenings which is why he has decided to start up his own social network, BlogBook. I'm already a member and have two friends (Tony and me - you can friend yourself on BlogBook! It's awesome!). <br /><br />Third, this review was too clever by half. <br /><br />Fourth, I actually want to see this now. Once again, Bill, I'm powerless in the face of your recommendations.Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05730146625671701859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-47313089224630715302010-10-03T23:46:41.208-04:002010-10-03T23:46:41.208-04:00Bill, I feel similarly.
I normally can't sta...Bill, I feel similarly. <br /><br />I normally can't stand Sorkin, partly because everyone talks the same snarky, rapid-fire way, regardless of who they are. TSN had that, but I thought it was funny, clever, and the cast and Fincher did such a fine job that I didn't mind so much.<br /><br />But I didn't think it was transcendent, either. I just don't think there's that much to it beyond well-executed cleverness.<br /><br />And what was with that suddenly crazy Asian girlfriend? Are women just like that?<br /><br />But I don't really want to bicker with those who loved it, either. As with Inception, I understand that feeling; I just don't share it.Joshnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-82591706984263435732010-10-03T11:05:53.866-04:002010-10-03T11:05:53.866-04:00Craig - Yes, that Cole Porter line was prime bad S...Craig - Yes, that Cole Porter line was prime bad Sorkin. Meanwhile, he's also able to write a scene like the one where the Winkelvosses meet with the president of Harvard. There are a couple of overly clever lines there as well, but they're excused because they're funny, and the scene as a whole is a pretty great piece of writing. And it could have been cut, too (for pacing or whatever), so I'm glad they didn't do that.bill r.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17748572205731857892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-17087456663547290562010-10-03T10:07:25.424-04:002010-10-03T10:07:25.424-04:00In Sorkin's case, I think "too clever by ...In Sorkin's case, I think "too clever by half" also means that rather than flatter the audience for being smart, he flatters the audience for being as smart as <i>he is</i>. A fine distinction, but in addition to a couple of examples you mentioned, the line about Cole Porter love songs made me wince.<br /><br />As with you, though, it was one of only a few instances, and I suspect Fincher had a lot to do with keeping the best parts of the script intact and excising most of the bad stuff. (Wanna bet how many Bush jokes were in the original script?) I've been something of a Fincher agnostic as well. But as others have mentioned, he and Sorkin produced a fruitful tension here, with dialogue and visuals seeming to be at cross-purposes yet somehow attaining equilibrium. Sorkin's zingers cut deeper, it turns out, when the characters are sitting opposite of each other rather than running down corridors. And that rowing sequence, which must have been minimal on the page ("Winkelvoss twins -- they row"), becomes a classic piece of cinema.Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01450775188328918558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-81083532721844144122010-10-02T23:26:59.288-04:002010-10-02T23:26:59.288-04:00Was he super nice? Did you tell him about me? Do...Was he super nice? Did you tell him about me? Does he like my blog? He likes blogs, right?bill r.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17748572205731857892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-63948203954119124302010-10-02T23:24:16.776-04:002010-10-02T23:24:16.776-04:00Nah, don't even get me started on Armond White...Nah, don't even get me started on Armond White... a) I don't even read the guy's reviews anymore, just his irrational attacks on bloggers, and b) I had the pleasure of attending several screenings with him this week, and well, let's not go there...Tony Dayoubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04632329277519635858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-78326791524264888212010-10-02T23:20:09.534-04:002010-10-02T23:20:09.534-04:00Are you talking about Armond White, by any chance?...Are you talking about Armond White, by any chance? I haven't read his review, and don't know what he believed unraveled the whole film, but his is the one major negative reaction I know about. And who saw THAT coming, right???<br /><br />But there's a backlash coming, no question. It will probably be mild and irrelevant, such as the one that eventually met up with NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN, or it might be huge. I don't know, but it's on the way.<br /><br /><i>And no, I didn't call YOUR life bland, but there are those FB friends out there...</i><br /><br />Oh, them. Yeah, those guys are losers.bill r.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17748572205731857892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-29135458561410986332010-10-02T23:12:45.422-04:002010-10-02T23:12:45.422-04:00No argument from me, Bill. I'm mostly arguing ...No argument from me, Bill. I'm mostly arguing with other naysayers out there who may be reading. I've heard such flaws as the one you point out used to unravel the whole film (as well as an argument that the film didn't touch one critic on an emotional level... which Richard Brody was kind enough to tell said critic was sort of the point of the film). I'm not surprised that you are able to see past these nitpicks where other critics can't seem to do the same. I just think it's ingenious that Sorkin left himself a writerly escape hatch in the event such things (and any factual discrepancies inherent in an unauthorized "true" story) came up. Wish I'd think of something like that for my own scripts.<br /><br />And no, I didn't call YOUR life bland, but there are those FB friends out there...Tony Dayoubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04632329277519635858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-18230427832239744392010-10-02T22:57:13.347-04:002010-10-02T22:57:13.347-04:00Jordan - I'm not the world's biggest Finch...Jordan - I'm not the world's biggest Fincher fan, but I would marry ZODIAC if I could. I wouldn't put THE SOCIAL NETWORK at that level, but it's excellent, and easily my second favorite of Fincher's work.<br /><br />All well and good, Tony, but you did get that I REALLY liked the film, right? If I think you're overpraising it, or that your justifications for the bits I didn't care for are a stretch, I'm not going to try to make you see the light, because it's a REALLY good movie anyway. Degrees become a silly distraction, or an excuse to argue, at this point.<br /><br />However, am I wrong, or did you just call my life bland!?bill r.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17748572205731857892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-63680002550531053452010-10-02T22:49:03.147-04:002010-10-02T22:49:03.147-04:00Lump me in with the overpraisers, Bill, but I thin...Lump me in with the overpraisers, Bill, but I think Sorkin's script is ingenious. And with the exception of TSN, I've hated much of his work. I love how he utilizes the flashback structure to create a RASHOMON effect, so that even if it doesn't feel honest that "...Zuckerberg sees her again, their meeting goes poorly for him, and he immediately decides to expand Facebook yet again..."—or the chicken scene and "conversational digressions" ring untrue—one could justify it as the kind of recollection attributable to an unreliable narrator.<br /><br />This is important because it is analogous to one of the points made in the film (and of which Facebook users are all too aware), that the site is typically used by many to put a nice self-promoting sheen on their often drab lives.Tony Dayoubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04632329277519635858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2856547151523423474.post-10316435431135788572010-10-02T20:57:32.975-04:002010-10-02T20:57:32.975-04:00damn, I need to watch this movie. Fincher has turn...damn, I need to watch this movie. Fincher has turned into one of my favourite directors, Zodiac just catapulted him to the top.Jordan Ruimyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17222074052222369460noreply@blogger.com